Home Depot Eavestrough and Siding

Home Depot....A name you can trust! Well, of course, we all shop there. It's a great store. In the last few years, the Home Depot and other big box stores like Lowes and Rona have begun to strongly promote their contractor service of eavestrough installation. Eavestrough, soffit, fascia, siding, even roofing.....they do it all.

Earlier this year, I met and had a length conversation with one of the Eavestrough Company's they subcontract work out too. I discovered that Home Depot was very busy. I also discovered that Home Depot's prices were out of this world expensive! This man explained to me that Home Depot charged $9.00 per foot for a bungalow and about $10.00 for a two story.That's nearly double what most companies charge or at least 30-40% more. I also discovered that Home Depot paid him MUCH less than the going rate for eavestrough AND he did not get the extra money for the two story homes. Based on what he told me Home Depot paid him, I would be unable to run a business on that but the gentleman told me he counts on volume and always looks to charge for extras and makes his money there.

This year I have been working on a house to flip and I decided to play dumb and call in the Home Deopt to look at my house that was in need of 165 ft of Eavestroughing, 140 ft of fascia and soffit, and 900 sq ft of siding. The house is pictured below. It is a raised bungalow with old galvanised eavestrough and the fascia and soffit is the original wood so there was nothing to remove.

This house is as easy and straight forward as they come! So I called up the Home Deopt and out they came. I was told by the call taker that they were extremely busy and I waited two weeks before they came out. So Home Depot probably is super busy with eavestrough installation. The estimator drove up in a beater of an old red Ford Taurus wagon. I explained what I wanted and he set about measuring. He was a very nice individual. However, it was apparent to me that he had limited knowledge of eavestrough work.

1. Upon my questioning, he was not sure whether their corners were the pre-manufactured or hand mitred.

2.  He made no recommendations about relocating the downpipes. Upon questioning, he thought the downpipes were fine where they were....going into the storm sewer.

3. He also made no recommendation that all the windows and doors should be recapped with the siding job.

When he gave me the quote here was Home Depot's pricing:

1. Eavestrough 165 ft. $1485.00 ($9 per foot)
2. Fascia and Soffit 140 ft. $2240 ($16 per foot)
3. Siding 900 sq ft. $7282.00 ($8.10 per sq ft)
4. Siding Removal $1571.00

Total estimate for my house: $12,578 plus HST

Let me start off by saying, THIS PRICE IS OUTRAGEOUS!!! After seeing these numbers, I can not figure out why Home Depot is so busy except that people blindly trust them and I guess they will allow you to defer your payments for a year.

Let me show you what this house should have cost:

1. Eavestrough $866.25
2. Fascia and Soffit $1400.00
3. Siding (with Removal) 4950.00

Total $7,216.25 plus HST

Based on the above quotes, you would pay $5,362 plus HST more for the Home Depot than hiring an independent Eavestrough Company to do the work.

By the way, my wife and I found that quote for siding removal by the Home Dept hilariously funny. My wife, Faye, has no construction experience. So just to prove a point, we decided to remove the siding.....just her and me. We ordered up a metal bin from Budget Bin Rental for $100. They dropped it in our driveway and we set about taking off the siding and depositing it into the bin. It took us 2 1/2 hours to take all the aluminium siding off the house and dump it in the bin. Based on that figure, Home Depot was going to charge us $315 per hour to take off the siding. Oh, and by the way, Budget paid us $400 for all the metal!

Here are some points to remember about Home Depot Eavestrough:

1. Home Depot ALWAYS subcontracts out their work to another company.
2. Home Depot charges WAY higher prices than the going rate.
3. Home Depot's estimators, although nice, are not that knowledgeable about eavestrough.
4. Home Depot will allow you to defer payments for a year but will charge you 30-40% more than another company for that privilege.

The Home Depot touts themselves as a name you can trust with quality you can trust. That might be true. But why would you, the homeowner want to pay a HUGE premium for it. Do your own due diligence and call in a few companies for estimates. For a name you can trust and quality you can trust, you can contact The Eavestrough Company at 905-966-2564 or visit our website at www.theeavestroughcompany.com We do it right the first time!

How to get a cheap eavestrough job (and guarantee sub-standard work)!

Here is an interesting ad I came across on Kijiji:

Looking for someone to do the eavestrough at my house as cheap as possible. Sides of house are 38 in length 25 at rear and 10 in front. 1 downspout on each side of house. Need a rough estimate on what this will cost me. Thanks 

Here's my two cents. Cheap is cheap! It's the old adage, "You get what you pay for." The guy (or girl)  who posted this ad on Kijiji seems to be more focused on wanting a cheap job rather than wanting a quality job. I see cheap work all the time and it's usually done by a new upstart company or roofing company that wants to secure the job. More often than not, they don't know how to do the job or they cut corners (no pun intended) to reduce their cost.

Recently we replaced an entire house of eavestrough for an elderly couple in Dundas who got hosed 6 years ago by a company posing as eavestroughers. The eaves all had the premade corners and were not mitred, they were slopped the wrong direction, the downpipe outlets were all on backwards and they leaked every where. The customer got fed up trying to get their "company" back and called me. Upon evaluation, I explained that it was better for them to rip them all off and start all over again.

If you pay cheap, you usually get cheap! There are all sorts of ways for contractors to decrease their expenses to pass the "savings" onto the customer. The customer saves money but gets substandard work in return. Here are some of the ways that an eavestrough company can save money and pass on substandard work to you, the customer.

1. Hire a company that does not carry Liability Insurance or WSIB on its workers. I pay $1000 liability insurance every year and thousands in WSIB. Companies who don't can pass on savings, but are also working illegally. Remember, if your workers aren't insured and they damage your property or worse, they fall and get hurt....THEY ARE YOUR PROBLEM!

2. Use thinner gauge aluminium. I use Boncor, Gentek or Kaycan Aluminum. It is all .024 gauge. However, there is a new company called ALB, that has only .016 gauge. It is so thin you could wrap a sandwich in it! Because it's thinner, it is way cheaper to buy. You, the customer, will never know unless you put a micrometre on it. I saw one company using ALB aluminium who told the customer it was Boncor Aluminium. The customer was clueless. Shame on that company! :(

3. Space your brackets far apart (which will save about .20 per foot). However, remember, most of the strength in the eavestroughs is directly proportion to how many brackets you use. I did a large repair job last week for a religious organisation. They own a couple large low income housing complexes and help the poor. Their eavestroughs were done by their roofers 4 or 5 years ago and some eavestroughs were falling off the building! They couldn't get their company back to repair so they called us in. Here is what we found:

The brackets (hangers) are 4 feet apart in the entire complex! This is WAY to far apart.

It's no wonder the eavestroughs are falling off the building! They have little support.

Here is one of our eavestroughs as it was being made off the truck:

That's my partner, Dusko with the white shirt and baseball cap. I'll give a little endorsement for him here. He is one of THE BEST eavestroughers in the entire region! Now, look at the bracket spacing on this eavestrough! They are spaced every 16-18" AND we are using .024 gauge aluminum!

4. Use cheaper caulking. This will save money but your eavestroughs are guaranteed to leak with in a few years.

5. Use fewer downpipes. This will save money but you should have a downpipe every 50 to 60 feet on a 6" fascia board. I did a job in Burlington, Ontario last year that was 189' of eavestrough and they had ONLY ONE downpipe which emptied into another eavestrough right over their front door! The home owner said that in a rain, it was like Niagara Falls, with the water pouring over the eavestroughs! LOL No wonder! We ended up putting 4 downpipes on that house and did not route one into the eavestrough near the front door!

There are several other ways guaranteed to save you money now but will cost you in the long run! DON'T BE FOOLED! Don't look for cheap. Look for quality. Hire an eavestrougher who knows his trade and settles on nothing less than giving a perfect job to his customer!

The Eavestrough Company specializes in eavestrough, fascia, and soffit. It's all we do! For a job done right the first time contact us at www.theeavestroughcompany.com or phone us at 905-966-2564.

Rain Barrels: Environmentally Smart!

I am a BIG fan of rain barrels! It's the wise thing to do environmentally and saves you money. Rain water is also much healthier for your plants. However, if you are going to install a rain barrel, you need to have the right location for it AND it must be installed properly for it to function.

The purpose of the rain barrel is to collect the rain water from your roof via the eavestroughs and into a big barrel located next to your house so that you can water your garden plants. Rain Barrels come in all shapes and sizes from 30 gallon barrels to 150 gallon barrels. You can link smaller ones together so that one over flows into the next. Some barrels are absolutely beautiful and others look like recycled restaurant pickle barrels (likely because they are!). Below is an inexpensive rain barrel sold at Costco.

Of course, as with anything, you get what you pay for. Cheap is cheap. These rain barrels are all thin plastic and not very durable. There are several important factors to think of before you install your rain barrel.

1. Buy a quality rain barrel! The rain barrel above is all thin plastic. The barrel, the overflow hose, and the hose tap is all plastic. Connect your metal hose to the rain barrel often enough and it is bound to strip. Like I say, the rain barrel like the one pictured above is not made to last. The one I like the best and is of incredible quality is a rain barrel made by Riversides in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. You can visit their website for more information http://www.riversides.org Riversides rain barrels are beautiful and made of very think recycled plastic. The have metal hose bibs and their overflow is a direct extension of your downpipe. The are also VERY easy to winterize! Not to mention they hold a whopping 132 gallons of water. Below is a Riversides Rain Barrel:

2. Where not to place a rain barrel! To place a rain barrel near a window well or a patio door is probably not a very good idea! Keep in mind that if you get a series of heavy rains, the rain barrel is going to fill up and over flow before you can use the water. You do not want to have all that water overflowing from the rain barrel and into your house! The rain barrel must have a functioning overflow hose. That overflow hose must take the water away from your house just like a downpipe extension on an eavestrough.

3. Where to place a rain barrel! Remember, you want to water your garden plants. So try and remember to place the barrel as close to the plants you want to water. Again, look at the above picture. I'd say that the rain barrel would have been better located closer to those plants if there is an eavestrough downspout closer to them.

4. Rain barrels work on gravity. The Costco rain barrel above is sitting squarely on the ground. Trying to water the garden plants with this rain barrel will be a challenge, if not impossible!

Recently, I and my son, Daniel Leytham, installed a rain barrel for my mother in law. We chose a good location, near her garden plants, with good drainage.

First, we dug a hole and filled it with gravel.

We dug the hole about 3 ft deep. Then I placed blocks on top with patio stones.

You can see how we raised it about two feet off the ground so that gravity will do its job. However, when we were done, my mother in law did not like the look of the concrete blocks so I recommended some new shrubs that would hide the blocks.

And here we are as happy as we can be with the finished product!

Rain barrels are an awesome creation. I will be writing another article on rain barrels soon when I install the one I bought for my house. At The Eavestrough Company, we help homeowners all the time with advice on installing new rain barrels. For all your eavestrough needs, contact The Eavestrough Company at 905-966-2564 or visit our website at www.theeavestroughcompany.com

HOLEY MOLEY! The gutter protection answer to sunroom eavestroughs!

Sunrooms! They are one of the most beautiful and most used rooms on houses that have them. I have yet to meet a homeowner with a sunroom who didn't absolutely love their sunroom. However, I also have never met a person with a sunroom and had large trees around their home, who didn't curse those little eavestroughs that are built in to them. They are only about 4" wide and sunroom roofs are generally very flat. Debris lands on the roof and blows right into the gutter. Look below at a picture of one of these sunroom eavestroughs.

The picture above shows how small these eavestroughs are. I have been asked repeatedly for years if there was any gutter protection product that would work on these eavestroughs. I have good news! The solution is Diamond Back Gutter Covers product called Holey Moley. Diamond Back Gutter Covers is a company that I am associated with. They make a product called Holey Moley. Installed the conventional way, Holey Moley is too wide (just like other gutter protection products). However, if it is installed backwards, so that the back is in the front, it clips in perfectly and is well supported. I did an install recently on a sunroom eavestrough and my son, Daniel, helped me shoot this video.

There you have it! An answer to gutter protection for your sunroom eavestroughs. For more information on eavestrough, fascia, soffit, or gutter protection, please contact The Eavestrough Company at 905-966-2564 or visit our website at www.theeavestroughcompany.com.   You can also visit the Diamond Back Gutter Covers Canadian website at www.diamondbackguttercovers.ca. If you are in the USA, contact Diamond Back Gutter Covers at www.diamondbackguttercovers.com. Note: Diamond Back Gutter Covers discontinued this product in 2019.

Roof Valleys: Necessary but troublesome!

Roof Valleys! I get MANY  calls every year from people who say that their eavestroughs are "leaking" or that they can't handle heavy rains. Upon inspection, I encounter that the common culprit are roof valleys on a house. Roof Valley's are created when two roofs, running in different directions come together and form a "valley" as seen below:

In today's world of new home designs, the larger the home, the more roof valleys it usually has. Look at the birds eye view of the home below:

Look at the complexities of this roof! Roof Valleys are everywhere! By my count, there are 13 roof valleys on this home! Not only this, but you have roof valleys running into other roof valleys! The valleys allow the home owner to design and build a home that looks absolutely gorgeous! Without them, you could not have a house that has dimensional roofing. All you could have is a straight roof as seen below on a home we just completed in Stoney Creek, Ontario.

This home turned out beautifully. It's a simple design from the 1940's that we did with Pebble clay siding and black eavestrough, fascia, and soffit. Simple roof designs were very common prior to 1980. However, over the years, architects became more clever with their roof designs for three reasons. The first was to make the house more beautiful; the second was to maximize space, and the third was to give added dimensions to the house.

However, roof valleys create enormous problems in regards to water drainage and they also trap debris in areas that have large trees. Look at the diagram below. It shows you the direction the water flows down the roof. You can have a ton of water drain from the roof into the roof valley and the result, in a strong rain storm is a river running down them and into one small section of eavestrough!

You can see how the water runs down the roof and into the valley. The problem is that by the time it gets to the end, you can have hundreds of square foot of roofing trying to fit into 4-6 inches of eavestrough. Now that's a problem! Look at some of these problem valleys people have asked me to come out and troubleshoot for them! These eavestroughs weren't leaking. They just could not handle all the water coming into one small section of eavestrough so the water was shooting over the front of the eavestrough and onto the ground.

I did not do this eavestrough job. They only called me out to try and fix their problem of water over shooting the eavestrough. The splash guards I installed didn't even work in a heavy rain! There was far too much water coming into this eavestrough. Here is another problem job I was called out to inspect.

The above homes are absolutely beautiful and the roof valleys help create their beauty. But you can see for some, valleys are a nightmare when trying to channel water off a roof and into the eavestrough. But the problem does not stop there! If you have mature trees around, they are debris traps! This is because debris blows onto the roof and then the wind travels across the roof in different directions. The wind blows the debris into the roof valleys and traps it there. Just look at these pictures!

The old home designs were simple and there were few problems with rain water and debris being trapped on the roof. The new home designs are complex and with these complexities come problems. We will always have roof valleys and the problems that go with them. In most cases, there are solutions to solve these problems. The most common solution for them is to install a splash guard like I did on the house 4 pictures up. Failing that, the next step is to install a 6" eavestrough and 4x3 downpipes. Regarding the debris being trapped on the roof, the only solution is to clean them out twice per year.

Roof Valleys are a problem, but not insurmountable. If you have troubles with your roof valleys, give The Eavestrough Company a call at 905-902-9424 or visit our website at www.theeavestroughcompany.com

Hire Reputable Companys!

I love my work. Every day is different, you meet many new and nice people and sometimes you come across things that are unique and hilarious! I know in the roofing and eavestrough business that there are some rough characters and that a good number use illegal drugs and alcohol. My workers, to my knowledge, do not use illegal drugs or have alcohol addictions. However, while out doing estimates earlier last month I was measuring a house in an upscale Burlington neighbour hood and some roofers were smoking marijuana right in their customers driveway in broad daylight! The smell was ominous, neighbours who were outside were angry, AND someone called the Police. I was sitting in my vehicle only about 30 ft away from the roofers who were lighting up and having a great time. They were getting high on pot and then were going right back up on the roof to do their work. Please don't tell me that I am the only one who sees something wrong with this scenario! :o  It's out right stupid to be high on marijuana and then get on a roof! Here is what I saw.

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There they are in their mini van! They must also be singing "One toke over the line sweet Jesus!" LOL They were having a blast until.......Halton Police rolled up behind them. The roofing stopped and they were in the back of a Police car....as seen below.

Can you imagine being the home owner having your workers arrested on your property? What an embarrassment!

Now imagine this! Do you think these workers are covered by WSIB? NO! They are a fly by night company. Who do you think is solely responsible if one of these workers are high on marijuana and fall off the roof or ladder and get hurt or killed? The homeowner, that's who!

It does not pay to hire workers like this. I encounter homeowners on a regular basis who are more concerned about the price of  the work they pay for rather than getting a great and perfect job done on their house. It does not pay to hire these guys. The risk is too high and good luck with trying to get any warranty from their work.

My advice? Hire a reputable company that would never tolerate workers like this. We, at The Eavestrough Company do great work and we back our work with a stellar 10 year warranty. And I promise you this. None of my workers will show up and smoke marijuana on your property. My workers do not use illegal drugs. If you want your eavestrough job done right, contact The Eavestrough Company at 905-966-2564 or visit our website at www.theeavestroughcompany.com. We are the Eavestrough Specialists in the Golden Horseshoe area!

Steel Roofs: The Pro's and Cons

I'll come right out and admit it before I write. I like asphalt shingled roofs so this article may be a bit biased. Don't get me wrong, they have their benefits and some people prefer them. However, there are pro's and con's to both.

I have been to countless home shows and listened to all the hoopla by steel roof companies, their superiority over asphalt roofs, their warranties, longevity, etc.... It's true. They do last longer than asphalt. However, I think they have a decided disadvantage over asphalt. A great asphalt roof properly installed will last approximately 30 years. A steel roof will last approximately 50 years (despite claims of a lifetime warranty). Longevity is the only advantage I see of steel over an asphalt roof. Here are some of the disadvantages.

1. COST. They are expensive. Usually they are 3 to 4 times the price of an asphalt shingled roof. So, in my opinion, as far as cost per year goes, steel is far more expensive per year than asphalt. Even if they are twice the price of asphalt, their cost per year is more.

2. Many contractors who have to access the roof in future years will charge you more. WHY? Because they are harder to work on and around. I know, as an eavestrougher, we dislike working around steel roofs. The most common problems for us are two fold: First, they sometimes have an enormous drip edge at the end of the roof that sometimes covers up to 3 to 4 inches of the top of the eavestrough. The reason is that before a steel roof is installed, the old asphalt roof is left in place. The steel roof is begun with a drip edge that I call a "bull nose". It is a large bulky rounded starter strip. See the picture below:

This picture only shows maybe an inch or so of the eavestrough covered. Believe me, when I encounter these roofs, far more than an inch is covered. This makes eavestrough installation a chore! Sometimes even impossible! However, not all steel roofs have this bulky drip edge.

Another reason we dislike installing around a steel roof is that if you have to get on the roof for any reason, we are paranoid about preventing any denting and they are slippery! If they are wet, they are like a sheet of ice!

3. No matter what steel roofing companies say, steel roofs WILL create major ice and snow issues in winter. The reason is that when the heat from the home or the sun melts the underneath layer of show or ice, it all lets loose at once and it is like an avalanche!  When that avalanche of show comes off all at the same time, It goes over the edge of the roof and can rip off the eavestrough and/or damage whatever is beneath it on the ground. I did a major repair for a customer we installed eavestrough for 3 years ago. Thankfully his eaves trough did not rip off the house. It merely bent the front of the eavestrough and damaged about 20 hidden hangers.

Yesterday I went to do an estimate for a man in Dundas. Look at the pictures below to see what happened to the eavestrough on his house. This is a major repair!

OOPS! Half the eavestrough is gone and the fascia has major damage from a snow slide off this steel roof! Where is the other half of the eavestrough?

Oh! LOOK! I found it! We don't call this eavestrough. We call it scrap metal! Here is more damage.

These are some of the problems I see with a steel roof. Let me be clear, I am not against steel roofs if a home owner has his or her heart set on it. However, you should go into any purchase with eyes wide open. If you are getting a steel roof, I would recommend you consider doing these things before you install it.

1. Replace your old eavestrough with brand new AND install Alu-Rex 5200 to make the eavestrough super strong. Alu-Rex 5200 can ONLY be installed on new eavestrough. This will help assure that an ice or snow slide won't rip off the eavestrough.

2. Strip off the old asphalt shingle roof and make any necessary repairs to roof sheathing before the steel roof goes on. Sure this make cost you an extra $1000 but it is worth it! It will also help assure that your steel roof  company will not cover over 3-4 inches of your eavestrough! Truth be known, I have never seen a steel roof company steel roof company strip off the old roof. They ALWAYS seem to cover the old. Personally I think this could create a steel roof that is hotter than normal as well as the old asphalt shingles will be unbelievably hot underneath the steel roof. I don't care what your steel roof company says.....STRIP OFF THE OLD ROOF!

3. Install snow guards around the entire perimeter of the roof. Snow guards help hold the snow and ice back so that you do not have an avalanche when the snow heats up. Below is a picture of some snow and ice guards:

Installing ice and snow guards is not only imperative to protect the eavestrough, It is imperative so that people and pets do not get hurt if the snow or ice happens to let go when they are directly underneath!!!

There you have it! My opinion on steel roofs. I have never owned one and probably never will. I like asphalt and the only negative I can see in them is that they do not last as long. If you are determined to get a steel roof and want to replace your eavestrough, contact The Eavestrough Company at www.theeavestroughcompany.com or phone us at 905-966-2564.