Why an upper Downpipe should NEVER be routed onto a lower roof!

When you look around at two story homes, it is very common to see the downpipes from the upper second story roof routed directly on to the roof on the first story. Most home owners never think about it, and it also allows an eavestrough company to save money on downpipe or give the customer a cheaper estimate to a customer.

However, routing the downpipes in this way is simply WRONG!!! Look at the picture below:

Do you notice anything? This roof is not old and the water has not been running down this area for too many years. Can you see the excessive staining and the dampness from the huge volume of water that continually runs down this one area? This roof is a 30 year roof! I guarantee you that the roof directly in front of this downpipe will last less than 15 years. It may not even last 10 years! Why? Water is powerful and it will begin to damage and curl these shingles. Want proof? Here you go! Look at the shingles directly in front of this downpipe! They are ruined!

And that is what will happen to your shingles if your downpipes are routed this way. When my company, Superior Exterior does work on your home, we will never route your downpipes in this fashion. Instead, we extend the downpipe across the lower roof and route it directly into the lower trough as seen in the picture below from a home that we did in Burlington.

Routing the dowpipe in this way will assure that the water from the upper trough goes where it is supposed to go! Directly into the lower eavestrough. You can assure that your job will be done right if you contact The Eavestrough Company at 905-966-2564 or you can visit our website at www.theeavestroughcompany.com

What's in an Estimate?

I do hundreds of estimates every single year. There are some people who look for numerous estimates. Then there are others who have met me and receive the quote and accept it and do not look else where. People are different. It is my belief that those who accept my job as the first and only quote accept it because they trust me and believe I will offer the quality service I promise to deliver. The other group, who is looking around for the best price also want a quality job but are looking for who can get the job done the cheapest. This is good! However, you must remember that not all estimates are the same so questions must be asked.

I lost securing a job recently where I quoted on Eavestrough, Fascia, Soffit, capping a few hundred feet of trim, and gutter protection. I itemized it all for the customer. The customer has a car port and decided not to do that as it would add hundreds to the cost. I talked with the customer who told me that she decided to go with the other company because they matched my price and would do the car port as well (which had around 400 ft of soffit. I was absolutely dumb founded as I priced the 400 ft of Soffit on the house at $4.00 per ft., which is an excellent price. I tried to explain to the customer that there was no way another company would install her carport soffit for $2.00 per ft! No matter! The customer was looking at the bottom line and was sold on the other company. I drove by that house a while later and was doing an estimate near by. I noticed that the other company had not done what I had quoted on at all! The hundreds of feet of wood capping: NOT DONE. Gutter Protection: NOT DONE. The customer also had fewer downpipes and all small square pipes. All corners were pre-made corners and not mitered. But worst of all, the fascia on the house was extremely wide and all had to be made on site. I noticed that the other company capped the fascia only up to underneath the eavestrough and did not cap all the way up to the roof line leaving the top few inches of fascia board exposed. This was not visible from the ground. It was a job poorly done!

I also did a job in Binbrook recently where a man, at first, contemplated not going with my company because I was over $1000 higher than XYZ company but I was $200 cheaper than ABC company. I was dumb founded as this seemed to be quite an enormous difference! The job was extremely large but $1000 is quite a disparity. I did the math and I got back to Mr. Customer who really wanted to go with my company but could not wrap his head around $1000 more. What I discovered was that if XYZ company quoted on the exact same thing as I quoted on, they were installing his eavestrough for around $3.25 per ft. and installing Alu-Rex Gutter Protection for around $2.00 per ft. These prices barely cover materials and labour! They may not even cover materials and labour! I relayed this to Mr. Customer who had XYZ company come back out to his home. Mr Customer discovered that XYZ company had not quoted him on the eavestrough, soffit, fascia, and capping on his new detached 2 car garage! Now XYZ was $500 more than I was!

The confusion with Mr. Customer came because XYZ company and ABC company looked around his house and then wrote down on an invoice: "Eaves, Gutter Protection, Capping" and then their price plus the HST. There was no mention of the footage involved or how much material was going to be used. There also was no mention of the gauge of material that would be used! It was just a price. My estimates always itemize EVERYTHING. I explain to customers exactly how much eavestroughing they have, how much down pipe will be used, how many elbows will be required, the lineal feet of fascia and soffit, the exact lineal feet of gutter protection, how many squares of siding, how many windows and doors and the cost for capping them, etc.....  I then spend time with the customer explaining that we will be using only large square piping or in some cases the oversize 3x4 piping. I may point out problematic areas that require a 6" eavestrough. I point out problematic roof valley's that require us to make a customized splash guard. Also, of great importance to the homeowner is to attempt to help them with the colours they are choosing.

My belief is that people need to know EXACTLY what they are getting when they hire me to do the job. On a personal level, I dislike blanket quotes that merely give me a price with no specifics as to what the job will entail.

On numerous occasions, I have lost jobs, only to find out later when driving by that house that what I quoted them on is not what was done in the end! One job I recently quoted on had many second story down pipes that routed directly onto lower roofs. I ALWAYS route upper level downpipes directly into lower troughs to avoid excessive water channelling in one place, thus damaging the roof over time. The one company that beat me on price quoted on the job exactly as it was and thus had 40 feet of downpipe less than I did. Again, the homeowner was none the wiser because that company gave them a blanket price. Once the homeowner realized this, it was a different story!

I encourage estimates, however, just make sure that when you are comparing one companies quote against another, you may be comparing an apple with a banana! It may not be the same at all! If there are large disparities in the price, ask questions. You may find out like Mr. Customer, that XYZ company is cheaper for a reason!

When you ask me to do your estimate, I always quote on what it will take to get the job done properly! I use only .023 or .027 gauge aluminum, only large square pipes, the slope will be perfect, and all corners will be mitred. 

If you want a job done right. Contact The Eavestrough  Companyat 905-966-2564 or visit our website at www.theeavestroughcompany.com

The Power of Nature!

I do hundreds of estimates per year and every so often I run across some things that are so unique. Recently I was at a home in Dundas doing an estimate. I had to go onto the neighbors brand new driveway which was installed last year. While on the driveway, I noticed that daffodils were popping through everywhere! They were coming up right through 2 inches of asphalt! It was so unbelievable that I had to take pictures. Here they are! Enjoy the power of nature! Oh.....and my recommendation, get every freaking plant out from underneath a driveway or walk way before you pave! LOL

How to Guarantee a Flood in your Basement!

Although I can not say with total statistical accuracy, I am going to go out on a limb and say that somewhere between 60% and 75% of homes in the city of Hamilton, where I live, have downspouts that are directly routed into above ground pipes that go directly into the city storm sewers.

I don't know what genius decided years ago that we should route downspouts from the eavestrough directly into the storm sewers. Who ever it was came up with one of the worst home improvement ideas EVER! Of course, that was a different generation and houses were smaller and there were fewer of them. With the advent of more homes and larger homes, the cities and municipalities realize that it is just bad news to have all this water from houses directly piped into the the storm sewers. When there is a huge rain or a massive amount of snow that melts fast, the storm sewers can not handle all the water and it backs up and floods homes.

Can you imagine what could happen if this clay pipe fails during a heavy rain? It very likely would flood water right into this window well. If you have a downspout that looks like this one you might want to give serious thought to rerouting your downspouts or replacing your eavestrough! Often times people ask me if I can just move the downspout to the other end of the house. My comment is, "Yes, I can, but your eavestrough were designed to slope to this downspout." So you can't just relocate a downspout, without readjusting the eavestrough. More often than not, taking old eavestrough off a house and re-sloping it, is more costly than just replacing the old eavestrough with new eavestrough.

While I was out giving estimates today, I took a couple pictures of neighboring houses. These houses were only about 15 feet away from each other!

When designing a new eavestrough system for this home every effort must be made to move this downspout to a new location and route the roof water onto your lawn or into a garden. You can also do as I did on my home and route the downpipes under the ground via a a plastic 4" pipe and out to the street! You do need to have enough slope to do this! Here's how I did it!

Notice first that I removed the downpipe from the pipe going down into the weeping tile. I then capped the pipe permanently!

I then replace my eavestrough and moved the downpipe around the corner and placed it into an underground pipe that DOES NOT go into the storm sewer. I should have used black plastic pipe but I used green. The downpipe I used is the extra large 4x3 pipe.

I then took this green drainage pipe some 30 feet under the ground and out to the road and this is where my roof water comes out.

My neighbor and I have our garages really close together, so we actually created a drain in between our garages and placed a drain there for the roof water to go under the ground and out to the road. All the roof water on my house is deposited some 30 feet away from my house. See the picture below:

However you decide to do it, get the downpipes out of the storm sewer to prevent basement flooding! Just make sure you do it properly! I am doing a job soon for a woman in Hamilton whose only option in removing the downpipes from the weeping tile was to spill some of the water on her driveway. She just could not bear the thought of the roof water going onto the driveway and causing icing issues in the winter time, which it will. So in discussing the matter with her, we decided that we could remove around 80% of her roof water into downpipes that will spill onto her lawn and garden areas. The other 20% will be going into her storm sewer. However, I did convice her to get a premium quality gutter protection product to prevent debris from entering into her strom sewer pipes.

For quality eavestrough work, contact The Eavestrough Company at www.theavestroughcompany.com or phone us at 905-966-2564.

Need a New Roof? Do your Homework FIRST!!!!

The most important part of your house is the roof and the eavestrough. Most people recognize when their roof is in bad shape and needs replaced. The shingles curl, the grit from the asphalt shingle starts to come off and they get very brittle and you begin losing shingles. The roof below shows a house long over due for a new roof!

 So you decide its time. You need a new roof ASAP! So you go about securing names of companies to contact to gather estimates to see what company you are going to get to put on your new roof.

There are many good roofing companies out there and some that are not! However, not all roofs are created equal! You might get estimates that vary widely from different roofing companies. Sure some companies might be over priced, but usually, the more expensive estimates are offering certain things that others are not. When I have work done around my own home, I want the very best job done possible. I want quality work!

This blog post is designed to help you, as a homeowner, get the very best job possible done on your roof. Here are some of my recommendations:

1. You want FULL strip down of your old shingles! I know that most city by-laws allow you to have two layers of shingles and it is usually cheaper to cover the old shingles rather than strip them off. However, placing new shingles over old has a couple pit falls and they are bad ones! Here they are:

A. You will immediately void your roof warranty on your new roof! That nice 25, 30, 35, 40 year warranty  is immediately gone! They actually now have a lifetime asphalt shingle. The warranty on that shingle will be null and void if you go over a layer of shingles!

B. You will decrease the lifespan of your roof by half if you place it over a layer of shingles! Every roof  is going to get exposed to the sun and will heat up and the UV rays from the sun will damage it over time.

However, if you place new shingles over old, you also create an intense amount of heat and sweating on the underneath side of the shingle thus decreasing the life of your shingles dramatically!

I once had a roofer tell me that an extra layer of shingles added insulation to the home. I don't by that line of reasoning. Even if it were to add insulation value to the home (which it does not), the heat has all ready escaped your home! Bottom line: STRIP OFF ALL THOSE OLD SHINGLES!!!!!!

2. You  want to ask your roofer what he charges per hour should he find rotten roof sheathing that needs  replaced. You do want to have all your sheathing inspected for rot and anything that is visibly rotten needs
to be cut out and replaced. However, you also want the sheathing inspected for wood that is soft and
spongy and have that replaced too. It is the beginning of wood rot.

3. Once you have all those old shingles off and the sheathing in top condition, you want your roofer to install drip edge on the end of your roof sheathing. See picture below:

You need drip edge on your roof because when it rains, the water does not flow down your roof and fall straight off the shingle and into the eavestrough. Water actually follows a plain. When it gets to the last shingle, it will actually curl around the end of the shingle and travel backwards on the underneath side of the shingle. If you do not have drip edge, some of the water may hit hit the wooden roof sheathing and the sheathing will suck it up like a straw! This allows the sheathing to become wet and stay wet and it WILL rot! If you have aluminum drip edge installed, the water will hit the drip edge and it will drop straight into the eavestrough.It will also prevent your roof sheathing from becoming wet.

4. Confirm with your roofer how far he intends to overlap the new shingles beyond the drip edge. He needs only to go about 1/2 inch or so beyond the drip edge! I have see jobs that extend 2 or 3 inches or more beyond the drip edge! Not only is this bad in that you have now radically decreased the size of your eavestroughs, but in a short while, after the shingles have heated up, they will curl and sag into your eavestroughs. 1/2 inch is all you need!

5. You want new tar paper, felt paper or ice and water shield installed before the new shingles go on! See picture below. This roofer is doing it right! Full strip down of old shingles, drip edge, then ice and water shield!

The only problem with the above installation is that the roofer has his ladder directly against the eavestrough and by the time he is done, the eavestroughs will have significant ladder denting. Other than that, the roofing job itself is off to a great start!

6 You want to make sure your roofer is using only tab-less architectural shingles and not the old three tab shingles! The architectural shingles look better and last longer! See the picture below for tabless architectural shingles vs three tab shingles:

Demand to have architectural shingles! They do not cost that much more! Better yet, if you live in or near Hamilton, Ontario, go to AMA Roofing Supplies and look in their show room to get an idea of the types of shingles you want and colours! Their website is: http://www.amaroofingsupplies.com/home.php

7. Consider adding extra roof vents to eradicate excessive heat in your attic. Many attics are extremely under ventilated! Also, your roofer should be putting brand new roof vents on and replacing all old flashing around your roof chimney and other areas.

8. You want to be crystal clear with your roofing company that they will NOT be placing a ladder directly against your eavestrough. Demand that they use a ladder stand off and notify them that if they dent your eavestrough, they will be replacing them! See picture below for an example of a ladder stand off:

9. Confirm with your roofing company that they will be cleaning all the shingle debris out of the eavestrough and on the ground when the job is complete! It is very difficult to clean up every little nail that falls so expect to find some debris in the days after your new roof goes on.

The points above are key to you getting the quality job that you want done. After all, you are the one paying out $5000 or more for a new roof and you want it done right! The information listed here will help you!

Urban Roofing is a company I have seen do quality work. They are based in Hamilton, Ontario. Shawn Stratford is the owner of the company and he is 100% honest and takes no short cuts! They do roofs correctly! To contact Urban Roofing phone: 905-978-7691

Of course, I always encourage obtaining several estimates. However, you need to remember that the cheapest estimate is not what you are looking for. You are wanting the best job done on your roof. So ask lots of questions and cover the points above!

The information and opinions in this blog are my own. I will conclude this article with a picture of a house with a beautiful new roof!

For quality eavestrough work, contact The Eavestrough Company at www.theeavestroughcomany.com or phone us at 905-966-2564.

Combating Ice Damns!

11 Ways To Combat Ice Dams

Living in an area of the country where ice, snow, and cold is a reality for 5 months of the year posses some difficulties and problems for many when it comes to their roof and eavestrough. I get several calls every year from people who advise me that they have massive ice problems and every one of them blame it on their eavestroughs! I have yet to go to any house and find that the eavestrough is the problem (unless it is filled with debris)!

It's vitally important to understand that the ice build up is usually the result of a heat loss problem in the attic. The heat loss through the ceiling and lack of proper ventilation need to be addressed.

Installing new eavestroughs will NOT have a significant impact on any ice issues you may experience with your home. Properly functioning eavestroughs are definitely an important part of the big picture that may help with this problem but new eavestroughs will not eliminate ice build up if the heat loss problem isn't taken care of. 

Properly functioning eavestrough is essential for proper rainwater management around your home. On a cold winter day, the snow lands on your roof, melts due to heat loss, and freezes once it travels over the exterior wall of the house. Any water that makes it into the eavestroughs also freezes because the aluminum eavestrough is also ice cold.

Here are a number of ways to combat ice problems around your house:

1. Prevent heat escape through the ceiling by making sure there are no major gaps around light fixtures to let warm air into the attic. This is best done from the attic and is easy to see once the loose fill insulation is pulled back a bit. Use spray foam to seal any gaps. Note: Make sure when you go into your attic that you wear old clothes, a long sleeve shirt, goggles, and a good quality mask with a filtered breathing apparatus.  See picture below. The workers did not put the insulation back and now heat is escaping!

2. Make sure the insulation in your attic is approximately16 inches thick to provide about an R-50 insulation value. Ensure it is evenly spread with no bare spots which are often caused by people working in the attic and not spreading the insulation back out properly after the work is completed.  If you have any old electrical materials running through your attic, such as knob and tube wiring or old lights, have a licensed electrician replace these before you insulate.

3. Ensure all bathroom vents vent directly outside through the exterior wall or roof and NOT laid into the soffit.

4. Visually inspect from the attic that the soffits on the home are actually providing fresh cold air. You should be able to have a clear view from the attic into the soffit. You can usually see daylight if there is a clear path to a vented soffit. If you plan on getting your attic blown in, install baffles to ensure the ventilation to the soffit is not compromised. Below is a picture of a baffle.

5. Ensure that there are enough roof vents at the peak of your roof to allow heat to escape.

6. Install heater cables on the roof edge , eavestrough and down pipe. NOTE: This will NOT deal with the root cause of your ice issues. This is just throwing more energy at an energy loss issue. However careful use is needed in some cases. Some houses would require a major renovation to get to the root cause of heat loss due to vaulted ceilings etc.

7. Remove snow off the roof so it cannot melt and cause problems. Some roof tops can be reached from the ground using a roof snow rake which is much safer than going up a ladder this time of year. If you are attempting to remove snow off a roof, BE EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS!

8. Inspect soffits from the exterior to ensure that most or better yet all of the soffits are perforated with little holes to allow the attic breathe. Unfortunately many old homes have a layer of plywood hidden under the aluminum soffit which ideally should be removed to allow for maximum ventilation. To determine this, a piece of soffit will have to be removed to inspect it. Most homes built before 1975 will have plywood soffit.  When the aluminum soffits were done at a later point to cover the old plywood soffit, the installers generally did not remove it. At the very least make sure there is a 1 foot square hole cut in the old plywood every 6-8 feet. Every piece of new soffit should be perforated.

9. Improperly sloped eavestroughs can also cause major icing issues. However, they don't lead to actual ice dams. I have attended people's homes where there are sometimes 3-4 inches of water standing in the eavestroughs. They are either sloped the wrong way or else they are just old and sagged over time. In most instances, these eavestoughs CAN NOT be repaired. They must be replaced so that the slope can be made correct. In general, resloping an eavestrough takes more work and costs more money than simply replacing it.

10. If you live in an area with mature trees, make sure your eavestroughs are cleaned at least twice annually! In my opinion, this is one of the most neglected home maintenance items on a house! I guess it's out of sight, out of mind. Many do not see the debris in their eavestroughs and so they do not think about it. If you live around any mature trees, YOU WILL have to clean your eavestroughs! If you do not feel comfortable climbing a ladder to clean them, hire an insured professional to clean them out. The best time to clean eavestrough is late spring and late fall. Don't forget when cleaning your eavestroughs to make sure the downpipes are also clear of debris!!!! Remember, if the water cannot flow through the eavestrough and out the downpipe, it has nowhere to go! See below!

11.  If the bottom of your downpipes are at ground level, make sure that nothing plugs up the bottom of the downpipe, such as grass, leaves, snow or ice. Make sure the pipe has not been crushed or damaged. If the bottom of the downpipe is blocked, the whole eavestrough system will back up and freeze solid in winter time.

For quality eavestrough work contact The Eavestrough Compnay at our website at http://www.theeavestroughcompany.com or phone us at 1-905-966-2564

Choosing the best quality material for eavestroughs

Eavestroughs are made out of a few different materials. The most common materials are aluminum, steel, copper and vinyl. Aluminum is by far the most widely used material in North America. This is because it can be formed into a seamless eavestrough and will not rust. Steel and copper can also be formed into a seamless eavestrough but steel is prone to rust and copper is very expensive!

Vinyl cannot be fed through seamless eavestrough machines. Because of this they are usually purchased in 10 foot lengths at stores like Home Depot and Lowes. You will never see a professional using this product and is generally purchased by homeowners attempting to do it themselves. Vinyl eavestroughs should be avoided as the material is really not  good quality and there are seams everywhere which are prone to leak. It is also extremely difficult to fit them together and slope them properly. We stripped a house recently of all its vinyl eavestroughs. They were leaking everywhere!

Aluminium  has many advantages in that it

1. Comes in a wide array of colors.
2. Is made one site and is seamless.
3. Is compatible with a wide range of leafgaurds.
4. The corners can be easily mitred to prevent leaking corners.

When choosing aluminum, you want quality material and you want it SEAMLESS! The three major companies providing aluminum to eavestrough companies are Boncor, Gentek, and Kaycan. The type and number of fasteners is as important as the quality of the aluminum. That is why we use a hidden hanger with a screw and place them about every 18" apart. I have even spaced them at 12" apart at some customers request.

If you have any questions or comments to this post or any other please leave a response and I will do my best to respond promptly.

For quality work contact The Eavestrough Company website at www.theeavestroughcompany.com or phone us at 1-905-966-2564

Below is a quality job done in Waterdown by The Eavestrough Company. The customer was very happy!