Dead Man’s Valleys on Roofs: Pros, Cons, and Solutions

A "Dead Man's Valley" is a term used in roofing to describe a specific area where three roof planes meet at an angle, creating a low point that directs water runoff to a highly concentrated area. These valleys are often considered problematic in roofing systems due to their potential to cause water damage issues. In this article, we’ll explore the pros and cons of dead man's valleys, how they function, and the potential solutions to manage the water flow more effectively.

What Is a Dead Man’s Valley?

A Dead Man's Valley is formed when three roof slopes and two roof valleys meet, typically at an angle of around 90 degrees or less, creating a trough or "valley"  that meets together at the bottom of a roof. A Dead Man's Valley ALWAYS ends about 2-6 feet above the eavestrough and then dumps all the water from this area down another roof into a section of eavestrough that is about 2-3' in length. See pictures below.

You can see from the above picture that more than half the front of this roof ends in a small triangle area that then dumps all that water into a very small section of 5" eavestrough. There is NO WAY this 5" eavestrough can handle the amount of water coming from this section of roof!!

Dead Man's Valleys are commonly found in homes with complex designs or steep roof pitches. The term "dead man's valley" refers to how the water gets trapped in a narrow channel, leading to potential drainage issues.

These valleys are typically seen in homes with steep-pitched roofs or where multiple rooflines converge. The water from these roofs tends to collect and flow toward one or two small sections of guttering, which, if not properly managed, can easily become overwhelmed.

Pros of Dead Man's Valleys

While Dead Man’s Valleys are often associated with drainage problems, they are not without their benefits. Here are a few pros to consider:

1. Efficient Use of Space: In certain roof designs, these valleys help to maximize the use of roof space by allowing water to flow to a centralized area, which can be convenient in terms of roof layout and design.

2. Aesthetic Appeal: A well-designed valley can contribute to the visual appeal of the roof, giving it a more structured, symmetrical appearance. This can be particularly desirable in architectural styles that emphasize sharp angles or intricate roofing systems.

Cons of Dead Man's Valleys

Despite these advantages, the cons far outweigh the pros when it comes to water management. Here are the primary drawbacks:

1. Overwhelmed Eavestroughs: The most significant downside of Dead Man’s Valleys is that they channel a HUGE volume of water into a small area. In most cases, the runoff from both valleys flow into a single eavestrough. If the eavestrough is too small or clogged, the water overflows, leading to water damage to the roof, walls, and foundation.

2. Water Pooling and Backups: In many cases, the water runoff from Dead Man’s Valleys can pool in the gutter, causing backups that lead to leaks or ice dams in colder climates. This pooling water can also damage the gutter system over time.

3. Risk of Roof Damage: Excessive water buildup in these valleys can also lead to roof leaks. As water collects in the valley, it can seep into the roofing material, causing the underlayment to weaken and leading to possible structural damage. This is especially concerning in areas with heavy rainfall or snow.

4. Clogged Gutters: Leaves, debris, and other materials can easily accumulate in the valley, further exacerbating drainage issues. Roof valleys are ALWAYS debris collection sites. As the water runoff from the roof concentrates in one area, it carries with it debris that can clog gutters and downspouts.

Solutions for Managing Water in Dead Man's Valleys

To address the problems associated with Dead Man's Valleys, there are a range of solutions to improve water drainage and protect their homes from water damage.

1. Install a 6-Inch Eavestrough

One of the most straightforward solutions to the issue of concentrated water runoff in Dead Man’s Valleys is to install a 6-inch eavestrough with a 3x4 downpipe along with a splash guard. Traditional 5-inch gutters are always insufficient to handle the volume of water funneled into them from a valley, especially during heavy rainfall.

By upgrading to a larger 6-inch eavestrough, the gutter system can accommodate more water, reducing the likelihood of overflow and water damage. 

2. Install a French Drain

In some cases, it may be beneficial to address the water overflow problem on the landscape where the water overflows the eavestrough and falls to the ground. Installing a French drain under the ground can help channel excess water away from the foundation of the home and prevent water from pooling near the foundation.

A French drain typically consists of a perforated pipe surrounded by gravel or rock, which helps to collect and redirect water. The drain can be routed to a lower-lying area of the yard or to a designated drainage system, ensuring that water does not accumulate around the foundation.

3. Install a Splash Guard

Another option for preventing water from seeping into the roof structure is to install a splash guard. This metal flashing is will help stop the water from over flowing in moderate to light rain

4. Never install gutter protection on the eavestrough below the Dead Mans Valley. 

Anyone who knows me knows I am a big fan of gutter protection and I believe it should be installed on every job. HOWEVER, the eavestrough directly below the Dead Man's Valley should never have it. There is too much water going to this area and it can not assimilate the water fast enough.

5. Meticulously maintain the eavestrough below the Dead Man's Valley.

Making sure there is no debris or obstruction is this eavestrough should be a monthly occurrence! Seriously! This is a must!!!!

Conclusion

Dead Man’s Valleys are a common and always problematic designs of many roofs. While they can help to maximize roof space and add aesthetic appeal, they tend to channel large amounts of water into small, concentrated areas, which overwhelm eavestroughs and lead to water damage. By installing a 6-inch eavestrough, incorporating a French drain, and maintaining proper gutter care, homeowners can manage the flow of water and prevent costly damage to their property. With a plan and proper care, you can protect your home from the risks associated with Dead Man’s Valleys while maintaining the aesthetic integrity of your home.

If you would like a quote for eavestrough, fascia, soffit, siding or gutter protection give us a call at 905-966-2564 or visit our website at www.theeavestroughcompany.com

What are Eavestroughs, Fascia, Soffit and Siding?

 

When I was in University, back in the day, I had an excellent professor who would say, "The only dumb question is the one you don't ask."

This blog will be short and sweet, but every year I do 750 to 1000 estimates for people who want eavestrough, fascia, soffit and siding on their homes. However, believe it or not, there are some who do not know all the components that make up this part of the house or they usually are confused over which part is the soffit and which part is the fascia. I have had people who think the soffit is the siding or the fascia is called siding.

So when I give a quote, I try to be as simple as I possibly can. It's like Eavestroughs 101. So here is a picture I had done up. When I got into this business 16 years ago, the only name for eavestroughs was "eavestroughs". But etymology is a wonderful thing and many in Canada now call Eavestroughs "Gutters" like our neighbours to the south in the USA.

A picture is worth a thousand words. So, in an attempt to clarify all the components, here is a picture.

To some, this blog article may be like me repeating the ABC's but to others, it is a genuine question they need clarified. This might be simple, but the work is not and my company does a superb job with all of it.

If you would like a quote for eavestroughs, fascia, soffit, siding or gutter protection please contact us at www.theeavestroughcompany.com or call us at 905-966-2564.

Installing Vinyl Siding

Vinyl siding is a great way to give your house a beautiful makeover and enhance the curb appeal of your home. It negates the need for frequent painting, protects your home from severe weather conditions, and increases its overall value. There are nearly a hundred colours you can choose from and you can mix colours and styles like the picture above on a house we did with dark colour siding, white trim and perfection cedar shake siding in the gable peaks. 

My installation crew who does siding is second to none. I have been so happy and proud of these gentlemen over the years because they strive to give the customer a perfect job every time.

However, in my years of owning The Eavestrough Company, I have seen plenty of bad jobs and many do it your self jobs. I really think customers should leave it up to experts like us because there are so many mistakes you can make. If you want your vinyl siding installation to last for years and look beautiful, here are some tips:

1. START OFF SQUARE (STRAIGHT). If you do not start of square around the entire house, it will look awful by the time you are half way up the house because the lines of the siding will be off around the entire house and when you get up and over your doors and windows it will be an aesthetic and installation nightmare! I did not have a better picture than the one below but you can see in the picture the siding in the corner is about 1/2" out from one side to the next. Also, a huge rookie mistake was made by installing the siding too tightly. See point 3.

2. USE A GOOD UNDERLAYMENT LIKE TYVEK HOUSE WRAP. I have seen some rookie companies and do it yourselfers put siding right on top of the wood. This is a colossal mistake! Moisture will get behind the siding via rain or humidity. It even gets behind solid exteriors like brick and stone. Here is a house where they put siding right on top of MDF plywood:

Again. This is a BIG mistake and I will show you why. Last week we did a siding job where the siding was probably around 25 years old. No Tyvek House wrap or tar paper was used and every single sheet of plywood on the house had to be replaced because it was rotten and mouldy! Look at the pictures:

If this person had installed  Tyvek House Wrap 25 years ago, the plywood would have looked brand new. As it was, it literally was disintegrating everywhere.

3. DO NOT INSTALL THE SIDING TOO TIGHTLY. Most people (and some companies) are unaware that vinyl siding must be allowed to move. It needs room to expand when it is hot and contract when it is cold. When installing vinyl siding, there are nail slots at the top. The nail must go in the middle of these slots and YOU MUST NOT nail the siding tightly. If you do the siding will contract and expand in the middle of the siding and it will look like hundreds of bubble marks on your house. 

Look at this house below. It was one of the worst I have ever seen. Bubbles, bubbles everywhere. 

4. DO NOT INSTALL THE SIDING TOO CLOSE TO THE GROUND. Building code states your siding should be at least 6" off the ground! If you do not do this you are inviting moisture and insects behind your siding.

5. INSTALL ALL NAILS 12" APART. If you do not, a strong wind can't rip the siding off of your house. We encounter jobs like this EVERY year!

 6. MAKE SURE THE SHEATHING UNDERNEATH IS STRONG ENOUGH TO SUPPOR THE SIDING!  Again, think of the picture above. You can use all the nails in the world but if the sheathing is bad your nails and siding will not stay in place! We encounter jobs every year where the original builder used a sheathing similar to compressed card board or even drywall (yes, DRYWALL!) but had the original installers nail the siding into the studs of the house. Siding needs to be anchored to wood not cardboard or drywall!

7. USE ALUMINUM FLASHING AT THE BOTTOM. This will prevent bugs and moisture from wicking up behind the siding. Every single siding job we do we install aluminum flashing around the entire bottom perimeter. This seals off any opportunity for moisture and bugs to get in behind the siding.

Is vinyl siding difficult to install properly?

The answer is, Yes! This is not a job for the inexperienced do-it-yourselfer. The fact is vinyl siding installation is much more difficult  than you realize. 

Unfortunately, vinyl siding can easily be put on wrongly by home owners and installers who have not been properly trained. This can lead to all sorts of problems that can compromise your home. Since siding is so essential to protecting your property from moisture and weather damage, investing in a professional siding contractor with a strong track record of satisfied customers is well worth it.

My company The Eavestrough Company knows how to install vinyl siding perfectly, every time. If you would like a quote, please contact us at https://theeavestroughcompany.com or call us at 905-966-2564.

Sealing Soffit and Fascia Gaps with Caulking

 

We have been in the eavestrough, fascia, soffit and siding business a long time. One of the things we are seeing more and more of now is animal control companies caulking between the soffit and brick or stone of the house. This is something we rarely, if ever saw, 10 years ago but now it is rampant. 

Customers tell us they had a problem with rodents, mice, bats, insects or racoons, and called an animal control company in to come and deal with the problem. Now believe me, I know these creatures are a nuisance once they enter your home. I have been a homeowner for nearly 40 years. I have had bats, mice, rats, squirrels and insects enter our home and my wife and I make it priority number one to move them out immediately. We then try to find their point of entry to stop them from entering again. So I get it.

Bats, mice and insects need very very little space to enter. But does a homeowner need to caulk the entire perimeter of the soffit to keep them out and if, so, what should you be doing because there is a right way to do it and what I call a "not so right way".

I'm not convinced a homeowner needs the entire perimeter of the house caulked, but if you feel more comfortable having it done, then it certainly isn't a bad thing to do especially if it gives you a greater piece of mind not having creatures enter your home.

If the gap is very large, like the one below then I would say absolutely seal it. 

The reason I write this article is not so much in regards to whether or not you should do it. The concern I have is over how it is done and the types of caulking you should be using. I am writing this from an eavestrough, fascia and soffit installer stand point rather than an animal control company. 

In my professional opinion, there are two things you need to do in order for this job to be done right.

1. Install a wire mesh before the caulking! Please see the picture below to see what I am talking about.

The wire mesh will prevent any small animals or insects from entering.

2. USE THE RIGHT KIND OF CAULIKING!!!!!!!!!

Yes there is a right kind and a wrong kind. I have read numerous articles on this written by wildlife control companies and they ALL say to use silicone caulking. If you are convinced you need this service done, I want to be very clear on this! PLEASE DO NOT USE SILICONE CAULKING!!! I can't say that emphatically enough!

Now why would all these wildlife control companies tell you to use silicone caulking and I am telling you otherwise? This is because silicone caulking changes composition once it goes below 0 degrees celcius (32 degrees Fahrenheit) It still adheres great but once it changes composition, you can not get it off easily. We have jobs every year where we encounter soffits that are caulked around the entire perimeter. The caulking literally has to be taken off with a chisel and a hammer and yes, we charge a great deal for the removal of silicone caulking. Removal is a nightmare because all you can get off is an inch or so at time. Now try this around a house 300 ft perimeter. We once did a condo building and we had to remove 1500 ft of silicone caulking this way. It took one person on the installation crew 2 1/2 days to remove the caulking on this condo.

So what kind of caulking should these wildlife control companies be using when they caulk the soffits around your house? In our experience, any thermoplastic caulking like Koperlastic, Geocel, or Mulco works great. It adheres every bit as good as silicone but does not change composition. The beauty of this caulking is that all you need to do is pry a small amount of the old caulking up and you can begin to pull it off the house in large strips.

I hope some wildlife control companies read this because using caulking like thermoplastics is so much better for their customers than using silicone caulking. I would also welcome comments from any companies or persons who work for wildlife companies on this topic.

We aren't wildlife control experts but we do great work installing eavestrough, fascia, soffit and siding if you would like a quote please contact us at www.theeavestroughcompany.com or call us at 905-902-9424. We also welcome your comments.

Attic Ventilation and Why It's Important!

 

Attic ventilation is a critical component of all houses whether you live in a very cold climate like we have in  Canada or whether you live in a very hot climate like Texas or Florida. Most people don't think about this at all until their home encounters problems. If air is not flowing through your attic, you are creating a world of serious problems for your house. These problems include but are not limited to:

1. Serious Ice Dams in Winter time.

2. Severely decreasing the life of your roof shingles or roofing system (yes, and even your "lifetime steel roof") because of excessive heat trapped in your attic.

3. Trapped moisture in the attic which can lead to the roof deck (plywood sheathing) rotting or turning black with mold.

4. Damage to insulation because of trapped moisture.

Any one of the above problems can lead to tens of thousands in damage!

Lack of ventilation is a problem our company encounters numerous times every year. Sometimes the fault is a severe lack of insulation. Other times it is a home owner or some company that got overly aggressive with attic insulation and insulated right out into the soffit area of the house. The worst house we ever encountered for attic ventilation was this one. We knew the attic was not breathing but we did not know how bad it was until we took the fascia board off.

The house above was literally suffocating! As you can see from the pictures, the homeowner had insulation blown in and they blew it straight into the soffit area and completely plugged it. This homeowner's attic was so hot we could not stay in it for long. She also had blackened roof decking from excessive moisture and her 10 year old shingles were already starting to crack and fatigue. 

Atic ventilation is a very very simple concept! It relies on a common principle we all learned in High School Chemistry Class: hot air rises and cold air falls. Air expands when it gets hot and its molecules grow in size. Because of this, there are now fewer air molecules occupying the same amount of space and the hot air rises to the top. This is the reason hot air balloons float into the sky when the air is heated. It's also the reason attic ventilation works as it does.

Let's see how lack of attic ventilation vs. a well vented attic operates in two seasons:

The left side of this picture shows an attic that is not ventilated and can not breathe. The attic temperature is astronomical. The roof shingles are getting cooked and the A/C runs excessively. The right side shows an attic almost as warm as the outside temperature. The outside air enters in through the soffit area of the home and exits out of the roof vents keeping the attic cool and the house breathing.

In my professional opinion, the damage to an unvented attic in winter is greater than in summer. Here you see moist warm air trapped in the attic and this is why Ice Dams form. In an unvented attic in winter the insulation gets wet causing mold and mildew issues. The snow on the roof deck melts prematurely causing ice dams to form at the roof edge which can lead to water backing up into the house. A properly vented attic keeps the moist hot air flowing out of the attic mitigating these potential problems.

It's really this simple. You must have ample soffit and attic venting with a clear unclogged path from the soffit into the attic so the air can flow. If your attic isn't breathing, your house is in serious trouble. 

If you are unsure about your attic ventilation, leave it to the professionals. You can contact us at www.theeavestroughcompany.com or call us at 905-966-2564. We would be happy to help.

If you found this article helpful, we would welcome your comments in our comment section.

Can I install Christmas lights if I have Gutter Protection/Leaf Guards??

 

Each year I give hundreds and hundreds of quotes for  eavestroughing and installation of Leaf Guards. I only install gutter protection products made by Alu-Rex. A very common question I am asked numerous times per year is, "Can I still install Christmas lights on my new eavestroughs if Alu-Rex Gutter Guards are installed?

My answer is an unequivocal YES! Some Christmas light clips will not work but there is one that is sturdy and works like a charm with Alu-Rex T-Rex and Alu-Rex Double Pro. They are the Noma C9 Quick Clip's which can be purchased at Canadian Tire Stores in Canada or on Amazon. Here is a picture of the box and how they look on an eavestrough with Alu-Rex T-Rex installed.

So don't let the fear of not being able to install Christmas lights deter you from installing a quality gutter protection like Alu-Rex Double Pro or Alu-Rex T-Rex! In this case you can have your cake and eat it too!

If you would like a quote for eavestrough, fascia, soffit, siding and Alu-Rex gutter protection products, contact us at www.theeavestroughcompany.com or call us at (905)-966-2564. 

And when you hang your lights on your eavestroughs with Alu-Rex Gutter Protection, we wish you a joyous Christmas with your family and loved ones!

Asbestos siding: Remove it? Or Cover it up?

Every year I do numerous quotes for people who have asbestos siding and want  new vinyl siding. Asbestos siding was a very popular siding on homes during the mid-1900's. It was made by combining asbestos with Portland cement. 

Given the well-documented health concerns surrounding asbestos, many home owners are concerned at the thought of having asbestos on heir home.

Asbestos siding was known for its tremendous durability. It lasts for decades and is resistant to fire, pests, and severe weather. That's why it was so popular. However, after 50-60 years it becomes very brittle, cracks very badly and needs replace.

Asbestos siding is obviously not made anymore. Below are some pros and cons about the siding.

Pros

• Asbestos cement siding is fire-resistant and will not burn or melt the way vinyl and wood siding will.

• Impervious to insect damage and rotting.




• Easy to clean and maintain.

• Unlike more porous siding materials, such as wood, asbestos cement siding will not quickly soak up paint, which allows it to be painted more easily.

  
  

Cons

• Asbestos-cement siding is very brittle and can be easily chipped, cracked, or broken.   

• The use of a pressure washer for maintenance can crack the siding and lead to moisture intrusion if the pressure setting is too high.

• Asbestos cement siding  IS dangerous if pulverized by sawing or sanding.

• Almost impossible to find replacement asbestos-cement siding for repairs.

• Should not be refurbished, sanded, or altered, other than painting it.

OK. So you own a house with asbestos siding and now, after 60-80 years, your siding needs replaced. The big question is...Do you cover over the asbestos or remove it? Many (and I mean MANY) companies who install siding will say to leave it and cover it over. That's just WRONG, in my opinion. After decades in this business I will voice my opinion. YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY REMOVE ASBESTOS SIDING! I will give you several reasons why you should remove it:

1. I hate layering siding on siding. It's NOT safe! If you ever have a house fire, even a small one, layers are bad. I used to be a fire fighter. From personal experience, it is a nightmare to fight a fire when houses have multiple layers of siding.

2. Do you really want asbestos to remain on your house?????? I wouldn't. 

3. Without removing the old siding, you can't inspect the sheathing underneath to see if it is in good shape to hold the new siding. If the nails don't hold, neither will this new siding.  Case in point. We happened to be doing a house with Asbestos siding in Ancaster shortly after I wrote this article. The customer made the very wise move to take off all the old Asbestos siding and this is what we found! There was a lot of rotten wood lurking underneath!

Now ask this homeowner if she regrets taking off the old Asbestos! Not only did we uncover some wood rot but some much needed repair of the old block foundation that was covered up.

4. The old asbestos is super brittle! You nail it and it shatters. You put any pressure against it and it breaks.  So imagine this, you install new siding over the top of the old siding but the old siding is now completely shattered into pieces underneath. What happens when a large piece at the top of your house lets go and falls behind the siding down to the bottom? Your new siding breaks. That's what happens. Ask me how I know? I've seen it dozens of times. 

It is easier and initially cheaper to cover over the asbestos siding, but it certainly is not safer nor cheaper in the long run.

The cons of this siding far out weigh the pros but when this siding was created, it was not known how unsafe it was.

So, how expensive is it to remove and dispose of asbestos siding? It isn't as expensive as you might think. It costs about $3 per square foot for us to remove it and dispose of it.

If you have asbestos siding and want a quote to remove it and install new siding, give us a call at 905-966-2564 or visit our website at www.theeavestroughcompany.com